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www.sharmwomen.com • View topic - 1001 geschichte
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 Post subject: 1001 geschichte
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:47 pm 
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 Post subject: Please all posts in English...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:03 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:41 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:00 pm 
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That page just tells very bad experiences of ladies with men from everywhere - most of them of course arabian... . And when I am reading such a story I ask myself if these ladies mayve earn their destiny as they acted as stupid as people can act at all.
Sorry - I am no fan of that page... but draw your own opinion if you want.


Rgds - Quttah


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:13 am 
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I am sorry but I dont agree with you .Those are bad experiences with arabs -most of the problems : extreme gelousy, too much of his family into their house, marriages from interest, a completly diffrent man after marriage or when he is in his country...are not generally or anyway not like this. And also the fact that autorities doesnt help the foregner women.
But also if you know BEFORE this things and you can handle it you can have a very good marriage.Arabs men are also very loving men and very carrying husbands and fathers but when they feel loved and respected .
That,s why I think that it is an interesting site - women who wants to get married or to came to live here - to read and after to decide - if are normal problems everywhere or not .
As I understood most of the women in this stories are not very educated , or too young (17, 18 ) or much more older then the husband.So again no informations before - because you can blame your husband that he suddenly desapear with all your money but you cannot blame your arab husband cheking you everywhere (work, friends etc.), puting his mother and his family more then you, asking you to wear decent clothes etc.You must think what you can accept and what not in order to decide if you can live all your life with this restrictions.
I am in Egypt from last february just and of course every man/couple is unique everywhere but I think that I understood some from their mentality, religion and TRADITIONS because this is the most strong aspect of life here.Maybe I am wrong....???


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:28 am 
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Also many women are hoping to change the partner during their marriage/relation - when endeed only persone that you have control in your life is YOU.This is a bad aproach generally and specially to change an arab - I heard some women hoping that their muslim man will change his religion - this is a very good joke ! Maybe for a while for an interest and even so ....


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 Post subject: I am so lucky!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:28 pm 
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Well you see not every family is the same and it doesn't always have to be a bad story for everyone!!
I have a very very nice and kind mother and sister in law, I addor them and I am always happy if I see or hear them, I wish i would see them more, my arabique language and cooking would be improved. They never interfear in anything but they give their opinion and it's up to me to take it or leave it.
In one note : I am so lucky to have them.


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 Post subject: Alf laylah wa laylah
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:32 pm 
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Dear Destiny,

I thank you very much for your forward.

And of course I am also very happy for all the women who have a great relation with their arabic/muslem partner.

"There are no wrong experiences: there are just right experiences, which help us to learn what we need to learn".


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 Post subject: Islamic-Western relations.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:07 am 
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I allow myself to add the link of Lawyer Sami AlDeeb, where you will be able to find professional documents (free download), which help us to understand the differences between Islamic and Western Cultures, in order to consciously act, at the time of inter-cultural relations:

http://www.sami-aldeeb.com.

The Lawyer, in case of need, can be directly contacted by e-mail.


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 Post subject: Thank you Charmer for your comment
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:06 am 
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Thank you Charmer for your comment which added a balanced view on things. It is always refreshing to hear both sides of the story.

Thank you Francesca for pointing out some of the typical challenges in an intercultural relationship...but unfortunately, your link is out of context. It does rise more issues than answers. The Gentleman/writer behind the website is more of an intelectual living in an ivory tower. He represeent the extreme side of the equation which a total bias against a wonderful culture & society AKA. Arab/Muslim society. (I am sure, this wasn't the intent of your post :D


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 Post subject: Sami AlDeeb.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:57 am 
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Dear Fiona,

thank you for your reply. I do anyway think that Sami AlDeeb is a man who is working hard, to help -even- women to keep far from intercultural-relations, filled by illusions.

He does know Arabic Culture, as well as Arabic Muslem Culture.

His job is helpful, in order to understand, for us, which kind of differences there are (or there can be), between a Western Culture and an Arabic (Muslem) One.

Maybe the place where he is working and living, is "too much far" from Sharm. The "ivory tower" is just a way to describe the place where he works and lives in?

As well as "the city of peace" is the way that people uses to describe Sharm El Sheikh?

I am sure you will be able to help me understand what do you mean about his writings. I do think his writings are related to "1001 Geschichte": his job is also devoted to help women to avoid such kind of nightmares.

It is just a matter of knowing the differences between two Cultures, as the two mentioned above.

Sami AlDeeb has been contacted in many "1001 Geschichte" cases, in order to help the couple finding out a solution. Actually it was a legal solution. I would like to remember that such horrible stories, have horrible effects on the partner or, on one of the partner.

I am sorry. Maybe I was rude, telling you my opinion.

I wish you Happiness.


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 Post subject: Hi Franscesca!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:03 am 
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You were not rude at all.

Your comment, experience and point of view are enriching to all of us.
Your comment is still a reflection of your experience and your experience is a real one too. Nobody can deny it. And I agree with you, things you mentioned DO HAPPEN!

I apologize if I made assumptions about the DR linked to your website. I ddidn't know that he was a contributor to the German website and that he is dealing with real issues on a practical and basic level.

I just went to his website, and found his articles to have a very high dose of intelectual injections. I have nothing against intelectuals, I am myself fascinated by Sociology, Anthropology and all Humanities fields.

In a REAL relationship, it really takes two to tango. I use common sense (popular, street and practical psychology). I believe in my abilities to draw from my own ressources and dig deep into my inner self to come-up with half a solution (since I am the other party in the relationship). Concerning the other half, I have to know the person under different lights and circumstances and read most of the warning or go-ahead signals before I commit my self to him. Yes, there are no instruction books or 24 hours oracles to prepare you for what will happen in the future...but if we go beyond the infatuation, and listen to our open body,heart, mind and soul and constantly comparing them to what we want out of our life, then nothing would go wrong. (It is definately not an online doctor or a bitter girlfriend or nasty experience written on a website that could tell me what to do).
The Man in your life is not an island unto himself. He comes from a different background and has lived part or most of his life under social conditioning (Egyptian Society & certain religious beliefs), just like you & I do. The question remains whether you & him are independant people, love each other enough and willing to compromise to find a happy middle ground. If we go beyond ME, ME and undestand that he is making sacrifices too if he is a gentleman.

I just wanted to point that out, that there are so many happy experiences as as much as there are bad ones. It has to do less with the Egyptian society or Egyptian males and more with the relationship dynamics, both your expectations and preparation to accept or refuse certain things affecting both of you. (Both personalities & cultures).

If someone is an Islamophobe or suffer from Egyptotitis, I really don't see how she could be an understanding and loving partner in the long term and past the infatuation period.

I agree with you. There are some inescapable situations where no solution could do. It is easy for me to say (than do!) that you just have to break the knot and move on. It is a hard hard decision...but I am afraid there is no other alternatives. Accepting it as a positive & rich life experience and using it as a chance to grow and mature is the only way to move forward with your life.

All the best to all of us.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:38 pm 
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Dear Fiona,

thank you for your reply. First of all I should say that I ignore if Mister AlDeeb helped in the cases reported in the German site. Maybe he has nothing to do with them, while he had to do with several other cases, based in other Countries (not necessary Germany).

Secondly, I must say that I talked to an Imaam: he told me that when a "1001 Geshichte" happens, "for Islam, the guily one is the woman". Now, I am sorry if I allow myself to say that I have another point of view. I think, as you said, too, that a couple is composed by two people, and both of them are responsible for the relation. So, if there is a "guilty one", must definetly be a "guilty woman" AND a "guilty man". Otherwise, what should I think? That women are the only ones to have a "sense of responsibility", while men are free not to have any? Sorry for that personal issue. Above all, I think that is totally useless saying that "someone is guily". "Guilty" is a word which remembers me anything about "committing sins" and, sorry if I think so, people should stop talking about "sins", instead of talking about "human mistakes". Yes, definetly, if a "1001 Geschichte" happens, there have been "human mistakes", from both of the partners.

Islamophobie is not exactely what I suffer of: I just was an open-minded person, who got interested in Islam. It unfortunately happened to me to listen to some "raccist" issues, against the West, western people and girl refusing to accept a marriage arranged by her parents, from a person belonging to a Muslem Community. And that person was ruling a group of muslem people. I am sorry but I found the issues and the situation, against the values on which I base my life. That's why I nowadays think that it would be better, for me, to be a much more careful "open minded" person. Sorry if I hurted you and your feelings, by reporting what as above.

Going back to the man on the link (Mister AlDeeb), I think he is not just and intellectual person: I think he is a very human person, and, for sure, as lawyer, he tries to do his job in the most objective way that he can do. Anyway, a lawyer works with laws, which are a quite theoretical thing, which turn into something much more practical, when the law must be applied.

I now go. I thank you for discussing with me about those subjects. I wish you and ... sure ... us all, HAPPINESS.


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 Post subject: Life in between & betwix
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:15 am 
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Dear Franscesca,

I agree with you. The guilty sides are both the Male & the female. The two sides of the same coin.
I think the imam you spoke to is someone conditioned by the patriarchic society rather than by the Koranic teachings, where Men & Women are addressed in equal terms. In a Macho culture, a woman is the source of evil and the man is the innocent side. If a guy is a sex hound or a Casa Nova, he is a real man?but if a woman shows an inch of her ankle out of fashion or hold the hand of her legitimate lover, she is a prostitute (Tchermouta!).

I do apologise as the word Islamophobia or Egyptotitis was not meant to describe you. I was using it as a general concept, a state of feeling some of us (the ultra liberals & non-religious) are guilty of. We grow up in a secular society and we like to impose our views on others. We despise any signs of religiosity (like hijab, fasting, praying five times a day, the call of Muezzin...etc) and redicule all of it. We are incapable of opening our minds and hearts to the meanings and the deep spiritual message from these signs even from a sincere spiritual person who have faith rather than moral superiority. Yes, to some pseudo-Muslims you find everywhere, these icons are artificial & inherited cultural acts & symbols, but to the true religious/Spiritual person, they are signs of submission to God, and a source of inner peace, contentment and happiness in life & the after-life. Egypt happens to be one of the countries where religion rules every aspect of one?s personal & social life, the same way Hinduism in Nepal, Buddhism in Sri-Lanka, Jewish Hassidism in Brooklyn and Evangelism in the US deep south. (Alabama, Tenessee, Missouri, Texas?etc)

Now back to the relationship topic:
What?s worse, we (the ultra liberals & non-religious) get involved in a relationship with a conservative male. During the romantic phase, we prefer to silence our minds and throw our fears into our subconscious. As we start to get serious and deeper into the relationship, our original fears start to pop in. Rather than detecting these signals and confronting them earlier on, while deciding wether to continue with the relationship or move on...instead, we kick a fuss, have cold feet, confuse and throw all the blame on the other side and his culture for our mis-calculations and mis-judgments. Yet, nobody put a knife on our neck to get involved in the relationship in the first place.

I agree with you, that implicit & explicit anti-western attitude do happen here and everywhere in Asia, Africa & all over the world. But I don't think it is widespread here so much. In fact, Egypt is among the few nations where xenophobia is almost non-existant. They do love foreigners and I wish they stop charging them double or triple prices. The tier-pricing and subsidies are a legacy of Nasser socialist era and China or Russia still practices them.
Here, the nature of Anti Western & Male Chauvinism is different somehow. I assume, it comes from imported B-Grade Hollywood movies into a conservative country showing a loose & easy woman as a sex object. Therefore, the frustrated males blame their frustration on females and the gigolos think that a western woman is ready to jump into his bed at a drop of a hat. The preachers use these movies (meant to attract a sexually-starved audience) or what they see on Sharm Beaches as a pretext to demonstrate that the Western society/Women is devious and morally deficient.
Most importantly, the foreigners who come here to display their flesh and have holiday romance add fuel to the fire.
Also, some of this anti western feeling has deep roots from the past. It does come from a national pride and scares from the colonial era?and extends to the American/British foreign policies and war adventures in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon?etc.
I must admit, most of the Egyptians do make a clear distinction between the western public and the decision makers in the White House or Number 10.

I better shut up before my post turn into an encyclopedia.

All the best.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:31 am 
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Dear Fiona,

I am very glad your posts are really full of objective details, as well as details related to personal experience (subjective ones).

About Islam, we cannot ignore that Shari'a is a religious and a political way. While the term "Religion", in western countries -above all-, has just a "moral way of behaving" meaning.

In the West, that happened considered the damages that considering Religion as a Political Way, caused all around the world.

I tell you what as above, since when I personally tried to understand Islam under a Spiritual way, I have been answered, by a muslem, that my thinking was wrong, and that Islam was not a -just- Spiritual teaching as it is for other Religions.

Above all, I had to read the comment posted in a "blog", by a muslem woman: she was saying anything about "when Islam will rule the world" and "the murdering of an Apostate will have to be accepted. The important is to be on the right-side (which means: to be a muslem and not a person belonging to another Belief and Political thiking)".

In Cairo it happened to me to listen to a man who was asking me to do all my best to turn my original Country in a muslem One.

I must add, that, for instance, in Egypt, Infornation is not as free as it is in almost every "western" Countries. That's why people rely more on "Bin Laden" ideologies ("America and Its friends are enemies, which have to be destroied") and Ahmadinejad ones ("Holocaust never existed and Israel is not allowed to exist"), which are pretty muslem thinking. We cannot deny it, even if some muslems say that Bin Laden is not a muslem. Unfortunately the facts demonstate that he considers himself a muslem: not for nothing he is asking to the Muslem Nation (Ummah), to put itself together under "the Prophet's Flag" (Mohamad's One) and fight against the "misbelievers" (= non-muslem people).

I am trying not to get emotionally involved in those things. I am trying to "read" them objectively. Since I come from Europe, I know what about "my" History. In Europe, we had people spreading "extreme" ideologies, which enden in World Wars. Colonialism and Imperialism are realities, which happened "thanks to" extreme ideologies, where they were involved both "religious" believes as well as "superior race" ones.

We must admit that the veil, above all in western countries, are "arising", and that the veil is a sign of -not just- religious belonging but/and -also of- political belonging.

Maybe muslems in the West are much more "muslem" (followers of the Shari'a) than the ones living in a muslem country, where they can feel themselves "at home". In the West, "extreme" muslems feel the fear to get "droven out of the right track" by the western "freedom". That's why they try to show, in a very ortodox way, to which kind of belief they belong to.

My worries are related to what I said above, concerning "Colonialism" and "Imperialism" (Calliffat is a sort of It!) ideologies, and related to the fact that, if someone come and live in a western Country, should respect the Culture that he/she finds there.

As well as if someone goes and lives in a muslem Country, should try and respect the "way of living" that he/she finds there (I am not talking about the Tourism Industry where, we know, "it is the client who has to be satisfied". And this last issue worths for wherever there is Tourism, which is something quite different that Real Life).

Honestly speaking, I am nowadays thinking more about what Nelson Mandela said, in the case of South Africa: "Every Country to Its People". Considering the Essence of those words, I would wish that the West will remain a "western thinking" Country.

About knowing each others and our different Cultures, I listened yesterday and interwiev of a man among the ones who created "Wikipedia", the free Enciclopedia on Internet: he wished that, thanks to Wiki, all the people, all around the world, will have free access to Information, since wars and so on are just the product of ignorance (= not to know about "the other").

Light, Love and Power to you all.


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 Post subject: Re: 1001 geschichte
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:05 am 
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Might I add a short Presentation in English, of the Site suggested by Destiny, and the Problem introduced? http://www.slideshare.net/SKP_PSC/commu ... ss-english


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